A thrill records of “Today with George Stephanopoulos” broadcasting on Sunday, November 16, 2025 on ABC Information is listed below. This duplicate might not remain in its last kind, might be upgraded and might have small transcription mistakes. For previous program records, go to the “Today” records archive
JONATHAN KARL, ABC “TODAY” CO-ANCHOR: And I’m signed up with currently by Republican Congressman Thomas Massie of Kentucky, that led the initiative to launch the Epstein data.
Congressman Massie, thanks for being below.
Head of state Trump dealt with long and hard to stop your discharge request from experiencing. You won that fight. Currently what takes place? The amount of Republicans in your house follow your lead and oppose the head of state on this?
REP. THOMAS MASSIE, (R) KENTUCKY & & JUDICIARY BOARD PARTICIPANT: I believe we can have a deluge of Republicans. There can be 100 or even more. I’m wanting to obtain a veto-proof bulk on this regulation when it shows up for a ballot. And, you recognize, the head of state’s been stating this is a scam. He’s been stating that for months. Well, he’s recently made a decision to check out a scam, if it’s a scam.
And I have one more problem regarding these examinations that he’s revealed. If they have continuous examinations in specific locations, those files can not be launched. So, this may be a huge smokescreen, these examinations, to open up a number of them to– as a desperate initiative to stop the launch of the Epstein data.
KARL: I suggest, it is remarkable to hear him require an examination and just point out Democrats, just state his political challengers. Yet you’re stating he does not actually– he might not actually also desire any type of examination. He wishes to avoid the launch. Why does he intend to stop this? What is he– what is he worried of?
MASSIE: You recognize, I have actually never ever claimed that these data will certainly link Donald Trump. And I– I actually do not believe that they will. I believe he’s attempting to shield a number of abundant and effective pals, billionaires, contributors to his project, pals in his social circles. And I– that’s my operating concept on why he’s attempting so tough to maintain these data shut.
KARL: What do you believe is in fact in these data? I suggest, we have actually seen a lot Epstein product, from the criminal situations, right stuff that simply appeared today, you recognize, from the estate. What do you believe is left?
MASSIE: Yes, I do not need to rate what remains in the data. I have actually talked with the survivors via their legal representative, and we understand there go to the very least 20 individuals in those data. They’re political leaders, billionaires, flick manufacturers that are linked criminally that have not been explored. And it depends on the FBI, not the survivors, and the DOJ to launch those names, or a minimum of to explore them. And when I see Donald Trump reveal a number of examinations, I do not see him pursuing these abundant elites that are linked in these data according to the survivors.
KARL: The head of state has actually pursued you in some deeply individual methods. I suggest, assaulting you over and over once more. Also– also assaulting you concerning your wedding event, your current wedding event, which, incidentally, congratulations. What do you– what do you make from all that, and he’s, certainly, sustaining your main challengers. I suggest, what– what– what sort of retaliation are you dealing with?
MASSIE: You recognize, my spouse informed me, she claimed, I informed you so, we must have welcomed Donald Trump. He seethes that he really did not obtain an invite. So, we– you recognize, we’re taking it with a grain of salt. He’s being a bully, or attempting to be a bully.
And they’re attempting to defeat me below in Kentucky. Yet below’s what’s fascinating. Individuals funding this project are composed entirely of 3 billionaires, and they’re done in the Epstein course. Actually, among them is called in Epstein’s telephone directory, not the secret data that the FBI is maintaining, yet in Epstein’s telephone directory. So, it’s– it’s a little globe. Pet dogs do not bark at parked vehicles. And we are winning. I’m not tired of winning yet, yet we are winning. And not just the audio speaker, yet the attorney general of the United States, the FBI supervisor, and the head of state himself, and the vice head of state, they’re taking a huge loss today since after months of battling, I am winning today with Ro Khanna. We’re compeling this ballot, and it’s mosting likely to take place.
I would certainly advise my Republican associates that are choosing just how to elect– Donald Trump can shield you in red areas today by offering you a recommendation. Yet in 2030, he’s not mosting likely to be the head of state, and you will certainly have elected to shield pedophiles if you do not elect to launch these data, and the head of state can not shield you after that.
This– this ballot, the document of this ballot will certainly last longer than Donald Trump’s presidency.
KARL: Currently, I have actually talked with Us senate management that inform me that that this is likely not also mosting likely to be raised for an enact the Us senate. What– what’s your feeling on that particular?
I suggest, I think if there’s a frustrating ballot, like you claimed, 100 Republicans sign up with all the Democrats, the stress will certainly be enormous. Yet do you have any type of feeling the Us senate’s also mosting likely to elect on this?
MASSIE: Well, they do not have the step-by-step maneuver that Ro Khanna and I utilized in your house. They do not have that in the Us senate. It’s called a discharge request.
Yet the legislators do have various other methods to require ballots as changes, for example, on bigger expenses in order to allow expenses relocate quicker via the chamber. So, they can require the enact spite of the management’s initiatives.
I simply really hope John Thune will certainly do the best point. Look, our very own audio speaker attempted to press this expense by consentaneous approval recently, within 15 mins of me obtaining the 218th ballot, since he was attempting to conserve individuals from a ballot. If he prepares to pass it by consentaneous approval, after that the Us senate leader must be too. Simply bring it up.
Yet the stress is mosting likely to exist if we obtain a huge enact your house.
KARL: All right. Congressman Thomas Massie, thanks for joining us today.
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KARL: And currently we transform to Autonomous Legislator Chris Murphy of Connecticut.
Legislator Murphy, thanks for being below.
Prior to we reach the closure and all those relevant problems– on Epstein, the head of state is currently requiring or has actually required that the attorney general of the United States, the Justice Division, explore his political challengers. And Pam Bondi reacted by essentially stating, “Yes, sir,” and relocating that instructions.
What do you make from that?
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Well, it’s both heartbreaking and completely unsurprising. The Division of Justice has simply end up being a security noise for Donald Trump and a witch search procedure versus his political challengers. This is why our freedom remains in such danger today is that for the very first time in our background, the Division of Justice runs in order to attempt to penalize and secure any person that slams Donald Trump.
I’m actually pleased with the job that Agent Massie has actually carried out in your house of Reps, together with Ro Khanna. And of course, John Thune must bring that ballot to the Us senate flooring as quickly as it passes your house of Reps.
It holds true that Donald Trump is attempting to cover for, I believe, a host of actually effective and abundant individuals, yet he’s truthfully not that generous. He would not be experiencing every one of this initiative to attempt to quit the launch of these data if he had not been seriously linked in those data.
This is probably the largest corruption rumor in the background of the nation. We understand that since Donald Trump is mosting likely to these remarkable sizes to quit these data from appearing.
The Us senate must take this ballot. I believe it’ll be a like– most likely one more huge bipartisan ballot, and I’m thankful to our Residence associates for sending it our means.
KARL: He absolutely is mosting likely to remarkable sizes. Certainly, the head of state refutes any type of misdeed in any one of this.
I intend to relocate to the closure. Clearly, lengthiest closure in background. You think it finished ahead of time.
It was 43 days. Did the Democrats obtain anything from the 43 days that the federal government was closed down?
MURPHY: Well, allow’s simply keep in mind why we really did not have closures when Joe Biden was head of state and Democrats supervised of your house and the Us senate. It’s since we bargained with Republicans. We consisted of points that was very important to them in temporary and lasting investing expenses.
The lower line below was that Republicans reject to bargain with Democrats in any way, in any type of purposeful means, since they are so bent on increasing expenses as a system to spend for their huge billionaire and millionaire tax obligation cut. Which must be surprising to the American individuals that Donald Trump and Republicans are so devoted to increasing your healthcare expenses by half, one hundred percent, 200 percent sometimes.
Pay Attention, Jonathan, as you recognize, I believed it was an error for Democrats to quit what was actual political benefit coming off the political elections that can have permitted us to minimize these costs. Ultimately, I believed we had an actual shot to obtain a proceeding resolution passed that would certainly have reduced rates for individuals.
And I additionally stress that by capitulating, we have actually encouraged Donald Trump, that Donald Trump is mosting likely to act much more brazenly and much more lawlessly in the future due to just how this ballot ended up.
Currently, what did we obtain? We obtained a dedication for an enact December on the termination or the post ponement of these substantial costs boosts. If Republican politicians do not elect with us, after that it is much more clear to the American public that is in charge of the scary, the scary that is mosting likely to take place when numerous individuals shed their insurance policy beginning in January. That’s a really slim silver lining to me, yet I’m mosting likely to function extremely tough to make certain that that ballot passes. And if it does not, it holds Republicans answerable.
KARL: And also that positive side, my understanding is, that John Thune, the Republican leader, had actually supplied that ballot a month previously.
Yet allow me– allow me play to you what Vice Head Of State J.D. Vance needed to state regarding this.
( BEGIN VIDEO)
J.D. VANCE, VICE HEAD OF STATE OF THE UNITED STATES: So, below’s what the Democrats in fact achieved. They triggered a great deal of stress and anxiety for our soldiers. They made our air traffic control service not make money. They triggered a great deal of trip terminations. They had a great deal of individuals believing they weren’t going to obtain their food advantages. All for essentially absolutely nothing, Sean, since we can have struck this specific offer 45 days back.
( END VIDEO)
KARL: I suggest, in an actual feeling, take apart the food stamp advantages, which in fact the management pushed to– you recognize, dealt with any type of service to that, isn’t he right, in an actual feeling? I suggest there was– there was discomfort in the closure. There was even more discomfort coming. And once more, all you have is what you call that extremely slim silver lining to reveal for it.
MURPHY: Well, he’s absolutely best that there is discomfort in the closure. Closures are horrible. Yet as you discussed, they made it a lot even worse. They unlawfully rejected to pay nourishment advantages for starving children.
Yet the American public understood that was responsible for this closure by frustrating numbers. They claimed it was Donald Trump and Republicans. Why? Due to the fact that they run every little thing. They run your house of Reps. They run the Us senate. They run the White Residence. And they made no actual initiative to finish this closure. Once more, why? Due to the fact that they are so essentially devoted to increasing individuals’s costs.
Pay Attention, there’s mosting likely to be discomfort when you are attempting to eliminate to protect freedom. And, yes, I am dissatisfied in my associates that they weren’t going to stand and battle.
KARL: So–
MURPHY: I do not believe that there is a smooth slide course from below till following November. So, we’re mosting likely to be back at this once more in January. The financing just goes till January 31st. And I’m simply extremely frightened that we’re mosting likely to, once more, punting, past a short-term or long-term investing expense that does not do anything regarding individuals’s healthcare, does not shield our freedom. We still have job to do in advance of us as Democrats.
KARL: You have actually been quite severe with those 8 of your associates that elected the Republicans on this. You implicated them of electing with Donald Trump. And I intend to simply review what among them, Angus King of Maine, what he needed to state regarding the factors behind his ballot. He claimed, “a closure encourages Donald Trump instead of rein him in. He has actually utilized the closure to remove breeze, to discharge even more government employees, to remove jobs he does not such as specifically in blue states, and to go usually– and to do usually whatever he desires. I never ever comprehended the reasoning of taking on a bully by offering him a brand-new tool to hilt you with.”
Was this a flawed method to start with, the concept of making use of a closure to– as utilize?
MURPHY: Well, Democrats really did not desire this closure. Yet we have worths. Therefore, if you desire Autonomous choose a spending plan, it needs to be an ethical budget plan that does not damage our freedom. The truth of the issue is, if you do not place restraints on Donald Trump’s outrage, this freedom isn’t mosting likely to be below following November. It isn’t mosting likely to be below in 2028.
So, Democrats, yes, need to attract company, ethical lines in the sand today. We would certainly be fools if we were to join to a long-lasting budget plan that, for example, completely funds the Division of Justice to take part in a witch search procedure versus Autonomous legislators. So, we do not desire a closure.
Yet the scenario is one-of-a-kind. Donald Trump is attempting to weaponize our empathy versus us. This is just how we shed freedoms throughout the globe, when despots or potential despots state, I’m mosting likely to injure individuals, utilize their discomfort as extortion to attempt to obtain you to provide me even more power to corrupt the country.
So, there is not a very easy course to conserving the freedom. There is not a course that does not entail some discomfort. We will certainly need to discover one-of-a-kind methods, as the civil liberties motion did, to reduce the discomfort for individuals. Yet there’s no basic pain-free course to conserving our freedom. And I wish my associates, that I appreciate considerably, understand that.
KARL: Chuck Schumer has actually taken a great deal of warmth for this. Do you still believe in him as the Autonomous leader? And do you believe he will still be the Autonomous leader after the midterms?
MURPHY: Well, we can not remain to run similar to this in an Autonomous Us senate. This is not the very first time that a little team of Democrats have actually gone across over to sustain Republican procedures that provide Donald Trump much more power. So, I have actually been honest with him and my associates that Democrats are mosting likely to shed this freedom if we remain to enable Republicans to cleave off 10 or 12 or 15 people. So we have actually obtained some tough discussions as a caucus moving on. We can not remain to be divided similar to this or we will not conserve our freedom.
KARL: So–
MURPHY: Absolutely, when we go back to Washington following week, Legislator Schumer is mosting likely to need to describe to us just how we’re mosting likely to run the caucus in a different way, just how we’re mosting likely to be much more unified.
KARL: We run out time, yet extremely promptly, prior to you go, the head of state claimed that he has actually chosen, has actually decided regarding Venezuela, recommending that there can be armed forces strikes on Venezuela. Just how huge an action would certainly that be and just how would certainly– just how should Democrats respond to that?
MURPHY: Well, it appears quite clear it’s simply an initiative to sidetrack individuals from the increasing rates and from the Epstein rumor. No person desires a battle with Venezuela to the degree they are declaring it has something to do with the medication profession concerning the USA.
Most of medicines do not come via the Caribbean. They come by means of a land course, a land course that the head of state is overlooking since he is so concentrated on this unreasonable, prohibited armed forces war Venezuela. So I do not believe he’ll discover much assistance among Republicans or Democrats in this nation for it.
And incidentally, it’s extremely prohibited. A head of state can not begin a battle with a country without a legislative permission. It’s simply one more indicator of just how uncontrollable and just how criminal this head of state is, and one more signal for Democrats regarding why we require to attract those strong ethical lines in the sand today to constrict his expanding outrage.
KARL: All right. Legislator Chris Murphy of Connecticut, thanks for joining us today.
